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STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
As the United States considers military action against Iran, it's also considering a military move in Syria. The idea is to withdraw the last U.S. forces from Syria. Up to now, their job there has been to attack the remaining ISIS militants and guard Syrian oil fields. Jane Arraf in Jordan and NPR's Pentagon correspondent Tom Bowman are covering this story, and they're both with us. Hi, guys.
TOM BOWMAN, BYLINE: Hey, Steve.
JANE ARRAF, BYLINE: Hi, Steve.
INSKEEP: Jane, when we talk about the remaining ISIS militants, weren't they kind of destroyed in recent years?
ARRAF: Well, kind of. But first, we have to think about that extraordinary reach that they had. In 2014, they rolled in and took one-third of Syrian territory, huge parts of Iraq, created their own state. So compared to that, yes, they're territorially gone, but they're still there. There are remnants of them, as you say, mostly in the desert in Iraq and Syria, and they have been regrouping and launching more attacks. Now, there are these seams between security forces where there's really no one in charge. And that's where ISIS flourishes, and that's what's been happening in these areas in both countries.
And along with that, Steve, the ideology still exists. You know, I've been to the al-Hol camp where the wives and children of fighters are. And particularly among some of the women, they're very much longing for the return of what was, in their minds, the caliphate, and they believe it will be back.
INSKEEP: OK. So the U.S. has been fighting them. The question is whether to let that go and focus on other places. If the U.S. pulls out, would the U.S. also be abandoning some longtime allies there, ethnic Kurds?
ARRAF: It definitely would. You know, when ISIS was driven out of Iraq and they moved into Syria in 2017, they would not have been defeated if they weren't helping U.S. forces. Syrian Kurdish-led forces is what we're talking about. Thousands of Kurdish fighters were killed. And so now, Steve, the U.S. has said to them, thanks, but we don't need you now. Syrian forces can now fight ISIS. But the Kurdish forces partnered with the U.S. for years, and it's a very different ball game with these Syrian government forces, which are made up of a lot of different groups. So there's clearly a sense of betrayal there on part of the Syrian Kurds.
INSKEEP: So, Tom, we've heard some reasons that people might want U.S. troops to remain in Syria. What is the Trump administration's case for thinking about pulling out that thousand soldiers or so?
BOWMAN: Well, first of all, there's a new Syrian government. And basically, the Trump administration says the Syrian military can now take over this job of going after ISIS, the remnants of ISIS. The U.S. would still work with them. But again, that's the reason they want to remove these 1,000 or so troops. People on Capitol Hill I talked with say they may be cut back, may be completely withdrawn from Syria. But there's a push by some to - listen, we can't remove all the troops. We're still worried about ISIS coming back. Now, Trump during his first term wanted to remove all then 2,500 troops from Syria. He was talked out of it by the Pentagon, and they basically said, listen, we're worried about ISIS coming back. And also, we want those oil fields protected from the Bashar al-Assad government and also from ISIS and also Russia and Turkey seizing those oil fields. So I made several trips there during that time, Steve, and was at one oil field being protected by none other than the West Virginia National Guard.
INSKEEP: OK. So, Tom and Jane, let me ask you both, what are the implications for this whole volatile region on the U.S. decision about whether to keep these thousand troops there?
BOWMAN: Well, there's a concern among some, including Senator Lindsey Graham and also former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo. We don't want all these troops to leave. We want U.S. forces to help protect the Kurds. And also, we're afraid that ISIS could come back. Not on the scale we saw in 2014, '15, where they, again, as Jane said, took over a third of Syria and a good chunk of Iraq. But there is that concern that you can't remove all the U.S. troops because the Kurds have to be protected, and you have to keep an eye on ISIS.
INSKEEP: Jane Arraf, how does it look from Jordan?
ARRAF: There's a lot of fear here in the region about what happens. Part of that, of course, is where the U.S. forces are. There will not be a vacuum. If U.S. forces pull out, there will be other forces that take their place. During the Assad era, U.S. forces in northeastern Syria, which is led by the Kurds, were operating in the same battle space as Russian forces. And Syria is still negotiating with Russia about whether Russia can keep its bases there.
Iraq would be really interesting and even more complicated than usual. The U.S. has bases in the Kurdistan region of Iraq after pulling them out in central Iraq at the request/demand of the Iraqi government, and it uses those bases to help support the Syria operations. So if you take out the troops in Syria and then the troops in Iraq are a question because after this agreement expires in the Kurdistan region of Iraq, Iraqi forces are there basically at the invitation of the Iraqi government in a bilateral agreement. So that's a question there as well.
INSKEEP: Tom Bowman and Jane Arraf. Thanks to you both.
BOWMAN: You're welcome.
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