Tucker Carlson on the war with Iran and why he worries about the spread of tribalism

+ National Tucker Carlson on the war with Iran and why he worries about the spread of tribalism September 24, 20264:45 AM ET Heard on Morning Edition Steve Inskeep Tucker Carlson on the war with Iran and why he worries about the spread of tribalism Listen &middot; 7:01 7:01 Transcript Toggle more options Download Embed Embed "> <iframe src="https://www.npr.org/player/embed/nx-s1-5973204/nx-s1-9938418" width="100%" height="290" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" title="NPR embedded audio player"> Transcript For NPR's Newsmakers, Steve Inskeep asks Tucker Carlson about the war in Iran, President Trump and tribalism. Sponsor Message Transcript STEVE INSKEEP, BYLINE: Tucker Carlson, the one-time ally of President Trump, is saying more about Trump's war with Iran.

+ TUCKER CARLSON: He was pushed by a foreign country to do this. It is the most profoundly destructive thing any single decision a president has made in our history. I feel sorry for him. I'm not angry at him personally. I don't think that he had the latitude to make this decision on his own. INSKEEP: Carlson spoke at his studio in Maine for the NPR video program Newsmakers. During decades in Washington he was a journalist, TV pundit, guest on NPR and huge star on Fox News. When Fox fired him, Carlson took his show to the internet. And in 2024, he spoke with the crowd at the Republican convention. (SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING) CARLSON: I can't hear you, but I know it's something good (laughter). (CHEERING) INSKEEP: That speech was just days after Trump survived an assassination attempt. (SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING) CARLSON: Everything was different after that moment. Everything. This convention is different. The nation is different. The world is different. Donald Trump is different. INSKEEP: Back then, Carlson said the shooting transformed Trump into a national leader. Today, Carlson says he feels the shooting transformed Trump into a creature of permanent Washington. In our long talk, he offered a theory that American populists are always shot and he suggested that Trump got the message. Carlson has lately been talking of a third party movement, although he says he is not the one to organize it. CARLSON: I don't think I could organize your daughter's birthday party. I don't have the skills for that. My skills are rhetorical. INSKEEP: He has used those skills to claim not only that Israel influenced Trump, but that it controls both parties, which led to a question as we sat face to face. Should President Trump be impeached for going to war with Iran? CARLSON: Should he be impeached? He's not going to be removed for this because both parties agree with it, and that's kind of the point. Trump joined the other side in the uniparty to do this. So he's not going to be punished for it. They'll get him on corruption or whatever. INSKEEP: That's a bit of an evasion, though, respectfully, in saying, well, it's never going to happen. CARLSON: Should he be - should he... INSKEEP: Should should he be removed from office if you believe, as you've said, that he effectively betrayed the country? CARLSON: He should have been removed from office immediately when he threatened nuclear war. INSKEEP: Carlson was referring to Trump's threats to destroy Iran. In our conversation, Carlson talked of the Senate minority leader, who was Jewish, and a Republican congressman who served with the Israel defense forces. Carlson knows how this all sounds and he volunteered that he is not prejudiced. CARLSON: None of this is an antisemitic conspiracy theory. There's nothing antisemitic about it. What you're seeing now revealed is the control of what was supposed to be the most powerful country in the world by a country of 9 million people with no resources. INSKEEP: Let me push back on a couple of elements there. You mentioned a uniparty... CARLSON: Yes. INSKEEP: ...A feeling that the parties are on the same page. CARLSON: Yes. INSKEEP: It seems to me that regarding war with Iran, that is demonstrably not true. Obviously, there are a lot of Democrats who support Israel and Israel's point of view, and yet the last two Democratic presidents made a nuclear deal with Iran and then tried to remake a nuclear deal with Iran, rather than launching a regime change war against Iran. CARLSON: Which is a huge... INSKEEP: It just doesn't seem like a true statement. CARLSON: Which is a huge improvement over what Trump did. However, the last two Democratic administrations, Biden and Obama, were committed to an anti-Iran policy, which was expressed through sanction, so it didn't work in any sense. And while... INSKEEP: Except to get to the nuclear deal, ultimately, but go on. CARLSON: Yeah, I guess. But what did they achieve in the end? I guess the point is... INSKEEP: A 10-year agreement. CARLSON: ...The - of course. INSKEEP: Yeah. CARLSON: But the orientation itself is what got us to this war. And the orientation was this - Iran is America's greatest enemy. INSKEEP: Carlson insisted that other problems are more important. He says he's come to believe the whole U.S. political debate is a distraction. CARLSON: And I was unable to see it because I was caught in the partisan lie. I was mesmerized by - and I was part of, by the way, the machinery of this as a cable news house for 29 years. I was part of this - effectively a deception, where the parties, you know, disagree on an issue - trans rights, amnesty, which are, you know, inherent, you know, they're real issues. I'm not saying they have no meaning. INSKEEP: You've talked about them on camera, so yeah. CARLSON: I've talked about them extensively. INSKEEP: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. CARLSON: In fact, I've talked about them way too much. And sort of missed the fact that, I don't know, we still tax income at almost twice the rate of investing, at labor at twice the rate of capital. It's, like... INSKEEP: Oh, the capital gains tax? CARLSON: Yeah. INSKEEP: Which is the income tax. CARLSON: Yeah. What... INSKEEP: Yeah. CARLSON: ...I mean, that's kind of the biggest fact of our tax code. INSKEEP: I want to follow up on something else you said. You said, you're not being antisemitic to criticize Israel in this way. CARLSON: Right. INSKEEP: I assume you understand, when you start talking about people with dual loyalty and strange connections to Israel are also in the government and a uniparty that is taking orders from outside, people who are antisemitic are liable to hear certain things in that. What do you make of that? How - what do you make of the way the... CARLSON: People who are antisemitic or liable to - for - I don't really know anybody who's antisemitic... INSKEEP: OK. CARLSON: ...For one thing, so I can't confirm that. INSKEEP: You would agree that there have been antisemites. CARLSON: Of course. There's... INSKEEP: OK. Go on. CARLSON: ...You know, people - there's a lot of tribalism in this world. INSKEEP: True. CARLSON: Now more than ever, and I detest it and worry about it a lot. Is it... INSKEEP: But you're a thoughtful guy. Do you ever wonder, wow, maybe that's me? Or maybe I'm having that effect with giving that impression, even if I don't mean it? CARLSON: I think that we haven't had this conversation for 60 years because people are afraid of being called a bigot for noticing something that has nothing to do with ethnicity. And I just refuse to participate in that because the stakes are now too high. INSKEEP: Would a simpler explanation be the president has no idea about foreign affairs, doesn't listen to people and made a mistake? CARLSON: Well, that's not likely in his case 'cause it's not true. And I'm not guessing about this. I was there. INSKEEP: But you've quoted him as waving off the risk by saying, it'll all be fine, which could almost... CARLSON: You want to know what he said? INSKEEP: Go on. Please. CARLSON: I'll tell you exactly what he said. INSKEEP: Please. CARLSON: And I haven't said this, but I'm just going to tell you. INSKEEP: Sure. CARLSON: And this is a fact. I had flown back from Tel Aviv from Ben Gurion Airport after seeing the ambassador, and two days later, I was in the Oval with Trump alone. I said, this war is not about Iran's nuclear program, which you told me and the world that you eliminated last summer in June. INSKEEP: Yeah. CARLSON: This war is being pushed by Israel. And he looked at me and said, yes, you're right. But in the end, we all die anyway. So it doesn't matter. That's exactly what he said. INSKEEP: Tucker Carlson, who broke with the President, though he remains close to Vice President Vance. We asked the White House about Carlson's claim that Trump said we'll all die anyway. They did not answer specifically, but referred us to a social media post by the president calling Carlson and others, quote, "stupid people." You can watch our talk with Carlson. He discusses Trump's faith and says Graham Platner should still be on the ballot in Maine. The video is on the NPR app, YouTube, Spotify and elsewhere. Copyright &copy; 2026 NPR. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for further information. Accuracy and availability of NPR transcripts may vary. Transcript text may be revised to correct errors or match updates to audio. Audio on npr.org may be edited after its original broadcast or publication. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.

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